Podcast Books

Podcasts / The Joe Rogan Experience / #2477

Episode #2477

#2477 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard

April 1, 2026
Rick Perry
Rick Perry

James Richard Perry (born March 4, 1950) is an American politician who served as the 14th United States secretary of energy from 2017 to 2019. He previously served as the 47th governor of Texas from 2000 to 2015 and ran unsuccessfully for the Republican nomination for president of the United States in the 2012 and 2016 elections. Born into a family of cotton farmers in Haskell, Texas, Perry graduated from Texas A&M University in 1972 and entered into the United States Air Force, serving a five-year stint and achieving the rank of captain. After leaving the Air Force in 1977, Perry returned to Texas and entered politics, serving as a member of the Texas House of Representatives from 1985 to 1991. Initially a Democrat, Perry switched parties in 1989 and became a Republican, and was elected Agriculture Commissioner of Texas the following year. In 1998, Perry was elected lieutenant governor of Texas, becoming the state's first Republican lieutenant governor since Reconstruction. Perry assumed the governorship of Texas in December 2000, after Governor George W. Bush resigned following his election as president. Perry was elected governor in 2002 and was re-elected in 2006 and 2010, becoming the longest-serving governor in Texas history. As governor, Perry identified as a staunch conservative, enacting conservative fiscal policies, restrictions on abortion and expanded gun rights. Long considered a potential presidential candidate, Perry officially announced his candidacy for the 2012 Republican nomination for president in August 2011. Perry initially performed well in polling and showed strong fundraising prowess, leading to him being considered a serious contender for the nomination. However, his support declined following debates and early primaries, and he withdrew from the race in January 2012. Perry declined to seek re-election to a fourth term as governor and left office in 2015, launching a second presidential campaign shortly thereafter. Perry's second presidential campaign failed to garner substantial polling support, fundraising or media attention, leading him to withdraw from the race after only three months. Perry was initially a vocal opponent of Donald Trump's 2016 presidential campaign, however, he later endorsed Trump after he secured the Republican nomination. After winning the presidency, Trump appointed Perry as Secretary of Energy, and he was confirmed by the United States Senate in a 62–37 vote on March 2, 2017. On October 17, 2019, Perry reported to Trump that he intended to resign at the end of the year. Perry's resignation was related to his involvement in the Trump–Ukraine scandal that eventually led to Trump's impeachment. He left office on December 1, 2019.

W. Bryan Hubbard
W. Bryan Hubbard

Ibogaine is a psychoactive indole alkaloid derived from plants such as Tabernanthe iboga, characterized by hallucinogenic and oneirogenic effects. Ibogaine exhibits complex pharmacology by interacting with multiple neurotransmitter systems, notably affecting opioid, serotonin, sigma, NMDA, and nicotinic acetylcholine receptors; its metabolite noribogaine primarily acts as a serotonin reuptake inhibitor and κ-opioid receptor agonist. The psychoactivity of the root bark of the iboga tree, T. iboga, one of the plants from which ibogaine is extracted, was first discovered by forager tribes in Central Africa, who passed the knowledge to the Bwiti tribe of Gabon. It was first documented in the 19th century for its spiritual use, later isolated and synthesized for its psychoactive properties, briefly marketed in Europe as a stimulant, and ultimately controversially researched for its potential in treating addiction despite being classified as a controlled substance. Ibogaine can be semisynthetically produced from voacangine, with its total synthesis achieved in 1956 and its structure confirmed by X-ray crystallography in 1960. Its clinical use and development have been limited due to regulatory barriers and serious safety risks, such as toxicity to the heart. Ibogaine produces a two-phase experience—initially visionary and dream-like with vivid imagery and altered perception, followed by an introspective period marked by lingering side effects, such as nausea and mood disturbances, which may persist for days. Long-term risks include mania and heart issues such as long QT syndrome, and potentially fatal interactions with other drugs. Only two randomized controlled trials have been conducted on ibogaine and noribogaine for substance use disorders, and while they show preliminary anti-addictive potential, their safety and efficacy are unconfirmed, with significant risks including cardiotoxicity and fatalities. Ibogaine is federally illegal in the United States. It is used in treatment clinics abroad under legal gray areas, with growing media attention. It has inspired the development of non-hallucinogenic, non-cardiotoxic analogues like 18-MC and tabernanthalog for therapeutic use. In 2025, Texas allocated $50 million for clinical research on ibogaine to develop FDA-approved treatments for opioid use disorder, co-occurring substance use disorders, and other ibogaine-responsive conditions. A 2026 US executive order directed federal agencies to accelerate review of ibogaine.

Listen →
No ratings

About this episode

Rick Perry is the former Governor of Texas and former U.S. Secretary of Energy. W. Bryan Hubbard is the Chief Executive Officer of Americans for Ibogaine, a public policy education and advocacy organization working to medicalize ibogaine in the United States.

Books mentioned

The Bible
The Christian’s Guide to Psychedelics: Finding Hope and Healing Through God’s Creation
The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English
The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross

Reviews

Sign in to write a review.

People

Rick PerryguestW. Bryan Hubbardguest