Podcasts / The Joe Rogan Experience / #845
Episode #845
#845 - TJ Dillashaw, Duane Ludwig & Bas Rutten

Tyler Jeffrey Dillashaw (born February 7, 1986) is an American retired professional mixed martial artist who competed in the UFC bantamweight division. Known for his elite striking and wrestling background, he achieved a professional record of 17 wins and 5 losses, with 8 knockouts and 3 submissions among his victories. A former two-time UFC Bantamweight Champion, Dillashaw first captured the title in 2014 by knocking out Renan Barão and defended it successfully before losing it in 2016; he reclaimed it in 2017 by defeating Cody Garbrandt . Dillashaw was born in Sonora, California , and grew up wrestling in high school and college, where he earned a Bachelor of Science in Kinesiology from California State University, Fullerton . He began training in mixed martial arts after college and made his professional debut in 2011, compiling an undefeated 5-0 record in regional promotions before joining the UFC through Season 14 of The Ultimate Fighter in 2011, where he won the reality show's bantamweight tournament by defeating Josh Ferguson via unanimous decision. Early in his UFC career, he secured four consecutive wins, including a knockout of Renan Barão at UFC 173 on May 24, 2014, to claim the vacant bantamweight championship in a stunning upset, as Barão entered on a 33-fight unbeaten streak. Dillashaw defended his title once against Barão in a rematch at UFC 186 in 2015, winning via first-round TKO, before dropping the belt to Dominick Cruz via unanimous decision at UFC Fight Night 81 in 2016. After rebounding with unanimous decision victories over Raphael Assunção and John Lineker , he defeated champion Cody Garbrandt via second-round TKO at UFC 217 to reclaim the undisputed title. His second reign ended abruptly in a 32-second knockout loss to Henry Cejudo at UFC Fight Night 143 in January 2019, after which he tested positive for exogenous EPO, leading to a two-year suspension by USADA, the vacating of his title, and the overturning of the loss to Cejudo to a no-contest. Following his suspension, Dillashaw returned in July 2021 with a controversial split decision win over Cory Sandhagen at UFC on ESPN 27, showcasing his technical striking but drawing criticism for his physical condition post-inactivity. He challenged for the title again at UFC 280 on October 22, 2022, losing via second-round TKO (punches) to Aljamain Sterling , during which he suffered a severe shoulder injury requiring surgery . On December 5, 2022, Dillashaw announced his retirement from MMA at age 36, citing the cumulative toll of injuries and surgeries, including multiple knee and shoulder procedures, as he shifted focus to coaching and other ventures. Standing at 5 feet 6 inches with a 67-inch reach, Dillashaw trained primarily at The Treigning Lab in Colorado and is remembered as one of the division's most dynamic technicians, despite the PED controversy that marred his legacy. T.J. Dillashaw, born Tyler Jeffrey Dillashaw on February 7, 1986, in Sonora, California , spent his early years in the rural town of Angels Camp, a small community of fewer than 5,000 residents known locally as Frogtown. He was raised on a 9-acre family property dubbed the "Dillashaw Compound," nestled in the hills near Main Street , where the household included hunting trophies, a rope swing, and a pool that reflected the family's active, outdoorsy lifestyle. Dillashaw grew up as the middle child of three brothers—KC, himself, and Justin—under the care of his parents, Hal and Janice Dillashaw, with grandparents, aunts, and uncles living nearby in the tight-knit rural setting. The sibling dynamic often involved rough play and "scrapping," which instilled a natural competitiveness from a young age, while the extended family's proximity emphasized community and support.

Duane Ludwig, known professionally as "Bang," is an American retired mixed martial artist, professional kickboxer, and renowned MMA coach born on August 4, 1978, in Denver , Colorado . He competed primarily in the welterweight division across promotions including the UFC and Strikeforce, amassing a professional MMA record of 21 wins and 14 losses, with 14 of his victories coming by knockout or TKO. Ludwig debuted in the UFC on April 25, 2003, at UFC 42 , defeating Genki Sudo by unanimous decision; he had previously knocked out Jens Pulver at UCC 12 on January 25, 2003, and later achieved the then-UFC record for the fastest knockout by stopping Jonathan Goulet in just 11 seconds at UFC Fight Night 3 in 2006. His career also featured victories over fighters like Yves Edwards and losses to prominent opponents such as B.J. Penn , Takanori Gomi , and Dan Hardy , before retiring in 2012. Transitioning to coaching after his fighting days, Ludwig founded Ludwig Martial Arts in Westminster, Colorado , a facility offering programs in Bang Muay Thai kickboxing , Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (both gi and no-gi), and youth self-defense classes for ages four and up, emphasizing discipline, safety, and a supportive community environment. From 2012 to 2014, he served as head coach at Team Alpha Male in Sacramento, California , where he developed game plans and trained a roster of UFC contenders including Urijah Faber , Joseph Benavidez , and Chad Mendes . One of his most significant contributions was mentoring T.J. Dillashaw , playing a pivotal role in the fighter's technical development and rise to UFC Bantamweight Champion in 2014. Ludwig's coaching philosophy, influenced by his own experiences and mentors like Bas Rutten and Trevor Wittman , focuses on efficient striking systems and has established him as a respected figure in MMA training worldwide. Duane Paul Ludwig was born on August 4, 1978, in Denver , Colorado , United States . Details regarding Ludwig's family origins and pre-marital family life remain limited in public records , though he grew up in the working-class environment of 1980s and 1990s Denver , a period marked by economic recessions in the energy sector that emphasized trade vocations for many residents. During his formative years, Ludwig completed education up to high school while developing interests in physical activities and practical skills; he pursued an early job as an electrician, reflecting the socioeconomic pressures of the time that steered youth toward stable trades amid the city's recovery from the 1980s oil bust and job losses. This background in Denver's blue-collar landscape laid the groundwork for his later pursuits, leading him to begin martial arts training at age 15. Duane Ludwig discovered Muay Thai at the age of 15 through local gyms in Denver , Colorado , where he was drawn to the sport after being inspired by martial arts films featuring Rocky and Bruce Lee . Growing up in Denver provided a structured environment that motivated his pursuit of discipline in combat sports. Under the guidance of mentor James Tigrett at his Denver gym, Ludwig immersed himself in intensive training sessions, including two-hour weekday practices and three-hour weekend workouts focused on repetition and precise technique. Tigrett, known for his intense coaching style, emphasized foundational execution, which Ludwig credits for building his early resilience and dedication to the art. During his initial years, Ludwig acquired core striking skills through Muay Thai drills, honing punches, kicks, knees, and elbows in a supportive local martial arts scene that included watching fights and learning from community figures. His first amateur experiences emerged from this training, allowing him to apply basic techniques in controlled settings while transitioning from casual practice to a competitive commitment in his late teens.

Bas Rutten, born Sebastiaan Rutten on February 24, 1965, in Tilburg , Netherlands , is a retired Dutch-American mixed martial artist, kickboxer, professional wrestler, actor , and commentator renowned for his pioneering contributions to MMA. As a fighter, he compiled a professional MMA record of 28 wins, 4 losses, and 1 draw, finishing his career on a 22-fight unbeaten streak that included 21 victories. Rutten captured the UFC Heavyweight Championship in 1999 by defeating Kevin Randleman via split decision at UFC 20 and held the title until his retirement later that year. Prior to his UFC success, he became a three-time King of Pancrase World Champion in Japan , dominating the promotion with his striking prowess and finishing 14 of his 17 Pancrase bouts by knockout or submission. Rutten's early life was marked by challenges, including childhood asthma and bullying, which led him to discover martial arts as a teenager after watching Bruce Lee's Enter the Dragon . At age 20, he began training in taekwondo, karate, and kickboxing while working as a bouncer and model in the Netherlands, quickly rising to become the number two ranked kickboxer in Europe with 14 first-round knockouts in 16 professional bouts. Transitioning to MMA in the early 1990s, he joined Pancrase in 1993, where his background in Muay Thai and grappling made him a standout, earning him the nickname "El Guapo" for his charismatic personality and good looks. Beyond the cage, Rutten has built a multifaceted career as a beloved UFC color commentator from 2006 to 2017, providing insightful analysis during events like UFC 129. He also ventured into acting, appearing in films such as Here Comes the Boom (2012) and The Smashing Machine (2025), and professional wrestling with promotions like Inoki Genome Federation . A taekwondo black belt and certified Muay Thai instructor, Rutten has authored instructional materials on self-defense and liver shots, influencing generations of fighters through his emphasis on technique and humor. Inducted into the International Sports Hall of Fame in 2018, his legacy endures as one of MMA's most entertaining and effective strikers, with 24 of his 28 MMA wins coming by knockout or submission. Sebastiaan "Bas" Rutten was born on February 24, 1965, in Tilburg , Netherlands . As a child, Rutten suffered from severe health issues, including eczema that covered much of his body and asthma that left him frequently out of breath, conditions that persisted from infancy and worsened after the family moved to a rural village. His mother managed his eczema nightly by applying creams and bandaging his skin, a routine that highlighted the family's supportive yet challenging home environment. These health problems made Rutten a frequent target for bullying during his school years, where peers mocked him relentlessly, calling him a "leper" due to his visible skin condition and physical frailty. The constant harassment , combined with his small stature, contributed to deep personal insecurities that shaped his early worldview. To cope, Rutten developed solitary hobbies, spending hours climbing trees—where his agility helped him escape tormentors—and drawing birds, an activity that provided a creative outlet amid the isolation. In his early twenties, after moving out of his parents' home at age 21, Rutten attended culinary school for four years and took on his first significant job as a sous-chef in a restaurant , where he honed cooking skills by preparing meals for up to 42 people during busy shifts. This period also marked his initial encounters with violence outside school , including street fights that began around age 14, such as a confrontation with a prominent bully named Sjakie, whom he unexpectedly knocked out with a single punch shortly after beginning martial arts training. These experiences, stemming from ongoing insecurities, eventually prompted him to seek formal self-defense training.
About this episode
TJ Dillashaw is a mixed martial arts fighter and former Bantamweight champion currently fighting in the UFC. Duane Ludwig is a former mixed martial arts fighter and is now a coach. Bas Rutten is a retired MMA fighter and former UFC Heavyweight Champion. He currently is the co-host of Inside MMA, and hosts a podcast with Mauro Ranallo called "Rutten & Ranallo."
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